Saturday, September 15, 2007
27 comments:
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Carla maybe getting them involved as early as possibly maybe U6-U8 so they can have time to get some confidence. Before the parents/coaches destroy them. It very tough to have an inexperienced new ref come into the game at the competitive level.
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September 16, 2007 at 9:15 AM
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I still am not sure about slide tacking from behind, my understanding is that regardless of whether or not you are able to "touch" the ball it is still a foul?
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September 16, 2007 at 9:18 AM
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It's only a foul if you make contact with the player before the ball, taking him down.
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September 16, 2007 at 7:05 PM
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I had some parents try to propose the idea that they'd like to encourage referee's to volunteer by paying them (i.e. $25 for centering a game, and $15 for assist referee).
Considering that at 12 games for U10 and a nine-child roster, that would add $73 per child. However, my estimate is probably too-high, because each team plays other teams, so I'm not sure how much that number would come down -- perhaps half ($35 per child).
Does anyone think that could work? -
September 16, 2007 at 7:09 PM
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Bob Tacking(challenging an opponent for the ball useing the legs)from behind is legal if it done safely and fairly.A tackle that dispossesses an opponent of the ball without making contact with the opponent is safe and fair.even if the player who is tacking dose so from behind the opponent.therefore there is no inffingement and the play shoud not be stopped.if in the opinion of the referee the challenge endangered the safety of the opponent even though there was no contact than an IFK should be awarded (for dangerous play)
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September 17, 2007 at 8:54 AM
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Ok, if I tackle from behind and poke the ball out before hitting the kid and the kid goes flying is that ok. I know that it is up to the ref to determine whether it was fair or safe, I guess that is the question?
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September 17, 2007 at 10:40 AM
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Bob: please read my commenet right what i said Tacking(challenging an opponent for the ball useing the legs)from behind is legal if it done safely and fairly. and if in the opinion of the referee the challenge endangered the safety of the opponent even though there was no contact than an IFK should be awarded (for dangerous play)mean is a foul
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September 17, 2007 at 11:25 AM
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Thx Steve, But my point of this was that it has nothing to do with whether or not the ball is touched first or not, like I was told this weekend. If the player is tackeled before contact with the ball is one thing and if after contacting the ball it is something else. Right?
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September 17, 2007 at 4:17 PM
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How about something around $1 a kid per team split %50 for center and %50 for both AR. Maybe raise or lower depending on the game lenght. But I thought that this is against AYSO policy to pay volunteers.
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September 17, 2007 at 4:20 PM
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It is against AYSO policy to pay volunteers. But, AYSO is allowed to contract for services. Perhaps a referee union could be formed and referees could be hired from it. I'm not sure that this would work or not, but it was suggested to me.
This is not my position. I like having volunteer referees like we do now. I'm just playing devil's advocate for the sake of discussion to try to understand the other side. -
September 17, 2007 at 7:45 PM
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I think having contracted referees is something that this LM AYSO organization should seriously look in to. I believe that it is the time that it takes, referee classes and having to ref a certain amount of games, that is the main deterant of potential volunteer referees. Parents have a hard enough time trying to manage their time between multiple kids, with over-lapping/conflicting game
schedules, much less trying to fit in refereeing a game or two. The organization needs to recognize this as a reality. Most of the people you have volunteering are not doing it because they want to, they are doing it because AYSO pushes them to by threatening that their kids' team wont be eligible to participate in playoffs unless the team has accumulated x number of referee points. As a result you have a good percentage of volunteer referees that dont make quite the effort needed to sufficiently learn the game and the rules. Parents and coaches voicing their opinion on the field is part of the game - This also happens when there are bad,inconsistant or misunderstood calls made - again part of the game. If youre hearing that people dont want to volunteer as a ref because of "abuse", then I would figure that your hearing that excuse from people who dont really want to ref, much less have what it takes to be a ref. I would assume that contracted referees are doing it because they want to, and most likely have a prior knowledge of the game as either a fan or former participant. Given the current cloud over LM AYSO, the board (or whoever)should be looking at ways/incentives to keep families interested in participating in the organization. Contracting referees would be a big "pro" for LM AYSO. -
September 21, 2007 at 9:55 PM
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A very successful alternative for solving the referee volunteer problem is to offer a "buyout." Every team has to fulfill their referee obligations but if a team can't, they use the buyout and pay someone to ref for them instead of refereeing themselves. This way, the only ones that are paying are the ones who aren't volunteering to referee. There is a master list of referees who can be contacted to work for those who want to buyout. Many more people will be willing to referee to help out other teams if they are getting paid for it, especially Biola students, people with financial hardships, or just anyone who has extra time on the weekends and wants to make some extra $$. It ends up helping out both sides. The team earns their referee points and someone who needs/wants the money gets paid to ref. The buyout list is not put together by the Board, it is just handled on the side by a referee volunteer or team parent volunteer. It can be as simple as asking the referees "who would be willing to work for buyouts" and there is your list. This way, AYSO is not paying referees, the parents who can't or won't referee are paying them, so those who do volunteer aren't incurring any cost. You'd be surprised how eager people are to buyout so they don't have to work!!!
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September 24, 2007 at 9:51 AM
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That is an excellent suggestion !!! As it is now, a team having 1 or 2 referees is not representative of a volunteer system. I hope the "buy-out" option would be a serious consideration of our region. As an example, we have 2 kids in AYSO and there have been numerous occasions that my husband has had to ref 2-3 games a weekend, in addition to watching our kids' games - why should he have to spend all Saturday at the soccer fields? That scenario is what your would-be parent volunteers should have an "intense phobia" of !
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September 25, 2007 at 11:09 PM
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Hey, I have 6 ref points for games I have done so far, and no one to assign them to. I will be doing more too.
Whoever wants my ref points, I will give them to the highest bidder. When that team is full, I will open for bidding my 2nd designate.
Let's see where this will go. -
October 14, 2007 at 12:25 PM
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October 14, 2007 at 1:00 PM
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October 14, 2007 at 1:08 PM
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Hey Brian,
I'm working here. Read the previous posts. -
October 14, 2007 at 2:26 PM
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Bob,
To clarify what was said earlier about slide tackles.
If, when a player does a sliding tackle from any position around the opponent, and makes contact with the opponent prior to making contact with the ball, it can be considered a foul. AND
If a player does a sliding tackle, again from any position around an opponent, and, in the opinion the referee, it is done in a reckless or dangerous manner. Irregardless if the ball was touched first, or at all, the referee can again consider it a foul.
I hope this helps. -
October 14, 2007 at 2:35 PM
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So far this season refereeing hasn't been too bad. Me being a high strung person and always active could be a little bit overwhelming and I complement the center refs for that. I think that the best way to get/keep ref's is to educate coaches and parents more. I.E. most parents don't understand advantage and even some coaches. Parents and coaches are always looking for an advantage, just a part of life, and are yelling for fouls against the other team when little Eddie gets tackled hard but cheer when little Eddie does the same thing. That is a problem so maybe you only let the sidelines yell when it's against their own team, silly I know but just a thought. Education is the keys and might help keep some ref's from leaving.
True story one of the worse experience in my life was the first game I centered U8 had it not been for MR. Nyma (spelled wrong) and the others that were in the ref tent that day I would have never done another game. We as ref's have to help and support each other. There was a mentoring plan in place sometime ago and maybe we could bring that back. I actually would walk the lines with the new ref's just to make them fell comfortable, teach them at the same time and most importantly help control the sidelines.
Just a thought. -
October 15, 2007 at 8:46 PM
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Steve,
I'll start the bidding at hot dog from the snack shack.
Bob,
We do have a mentoring program. Not teribly large but it is there Brett, Steve M, Steve N, myself and a few others who find the ideal of the referee brotherhood a worthwhile and noble cause. There will always be a seat there for you Bob. I know those grandchildren are on the way and we will need you coaching U6 in a couple more years. Mentor on my brother no one will stop you from spreading good cheer.
RC,
Rock on brother.
Parent X,
Bro I got three kids on the field I Coach, Ref and go to boring meetings to have good soccer in La Mirada. I have refereed 5 games on saturdays. I understand that you dont want to be out there all saturday.
But to have a good program all must contribute, because belive it or not there are some who would drop their child off and for the 85 dollars paid at registration expect they should not have to do anything else.
Respectfully,
I place my name at the bottom of each posting, because I believe it what I say and stand behind it. Stand up by placing your name on your post. If you want to change the region we will have a board position available for you. Email me a ARCGIRLS@ayso22.org.
Any questions,
Tim Jones
Coach,
Referee,
Gu12 Commish,
Assistant RC,
Secretary to the Registar
STAND UP AND BE COUNTED -
October 16, 2007 at 10:22 AM
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KOOOOOL MY MAN OR IS THAT TO HIPPISH (IS THAT SPELT RIGHT)
SOMETHING -NOT TO START SOMETHING ELSE- BUT IF GAMES WERE SPREAD OUT DURING THE DAY THEN MORE PEOPLE COULD HELP OUT. LIKE ME, DOING TWO TEAMS DOESN'T GIVE VERY MANY CHANCES TO REF. MY IDEA WOULD BE TO FILL UP THE BEHRINGER FIELDS FIRST THEN USED THE OTHERS NEXT.
IGNOE THE CAPS -
October 16, 2007 at 12:01 PM
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I agree that would also give me more opportunites to help on the field with my three childen playing.
Additionally, if we could use a few less fields that would decrease the stress on the field guy.
Tim -
October 16, 2007 at 7:45 PM
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Hey Steve,
It looks like you disagree with my "buyout" suggestion based on your sarcastic comment. That's fine but I know that AYSO is in a state right now where it may need to be open to new suggestions. I'm not saying to agree with me, I'm just saying don't be condescending about it. The idea is to have everyone contribute in some way, and let's be real, many parents are NOT going to contribute their time because they don't have it to give. Some are lazy but some just can't do it, so offer them some kind of alternative. There seems to be a lot of self proclaimed experts in AYSO about various aspects of how it should be run. Just because a person has been coaching, refereeing, or administrating for many years, it doesn't mean that they have been doing it well. Some of the worst coaches & referees I've seen have been doing it for "years". What I'm saying is to listen to new ideas from new people. Nobody should have to referee 5 games on a Saturday. Something is very wrong if this is happening. Agree or disagree, I don't care, just listen objectively. Have a nice day!!! -
October 17, 2007 at 12:23 PM
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Hey, Bob,
You got me all wrong.
I was NOT trying to be condecending or trying to be negative in any way toward your suggestion. If I unintentionally offended you sorry.
In fact, I agree, to some extent, to what you proposed. I have talked to John about sending out a feeler to all interested AYSO refs to start a La Mirada Referee Association. I am very interested to see how many we can get. Especially with the potential changeover next year.
It would have some of the following goals.
1. See how many are really interested.
2. Research CYSA, USYSA to see about going over as a group to become USSF referees.
3. Grandfather in our senor instructors and assessors. Thereby making it easier to get our AYSO refs certified.
4. Last but not least working our a fee schedule with whatever program is playing in La Mirada next year.
You get my drift.
And it was your suggestion that got me think about the future.
And by the way, I did score something on my auction.
I got a free hot dog offer from Tim Jones. But I'm afraid I will have to decline his bid, as he has about 100 refs doing games for him so he doesn't need my help.
Peace, Love and Happiness, man. -
October 17, 2007 at 8:39 PM
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Thanks Steve,
With 5 kids and a full schedule, I can be a little up tight, so thanks for your clarification and excuse my tension. Love always! -
October 18, 2007 at 9:46 AM
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Yeah, girl's softball can do that to you. :)
But don't worry, they all grow up and these become the "Good Ol' Days".
Believe me, I also have 5 kids and I know.
Now it's time for the grandkids to start playing.
So it really never ends. -
October 19, 2007 at 8:32 AM
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Well it happened today at the BU14 last game for the BU14 Costa Mesa tournament. Why am posting this on the "how do get more ref's" because after 700+ games as a head coach I probably had the worse centered game ever-Steve you might remember the other game some years ago- The center had a major GOD complex and made himself the reason for the game and took the game away from the kids. BTW it isn't a good idea to ask the ref how much they paid for their badge. The point is that if we/parents watch games like this they will never want to be involved. We need more real mentoring one thought on referring is that different ref see things differently then other and that will always be a problem for parents -coaches players and ref's.
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December 30, 2007 at 6:41 PM
I love these things. I could go on forever so here it is....
I understand that there is an intense phobia about becoming a referee. NO one wants to be the one having to deal with the parents, the coach with the chip or even the players that have been placed on a petestal. I like how the coaching piece was solved by receiving aid from the Biola Men's team. How can we get OUR parent more involved? Any suggestions.
September 13, 2007 10:42 PM