I had an issue with a center referee allowing kids to get into an elbowing contest on the field: Player A on Team 1 zeroes in on Team 2's most skilled player (Player B). Elbowing and pushing from behind by Player A at the ball and away from the ball. Non-calls by referee cause parents from Team 2 to become irritated with shouts from sideline directed at sideline of Team 1. Team 1's sideline responds with words to Player A, encouraging him to continue rough play. A second player - Player C from Team 1 gets into the mix, also throwing elbows at Player B. Player B finally tires of being fouled and retaliates with elbow to Player A. Referee halts play and warns both Player A and Player B, but allows them both to continue on field. Elbows continue and Player B is elbowed in face by Player C. Again, no call was made by the referee. No calls were made by either of the ARs working the game. Player B was essentially neutralized by Player A & Player B. Word from both sidelines is that this is what is taught by coach of Team 1, who became irate when I approached and spoke with center ref about the lack of fouls called. While this may be the preferred strategy in upper divisions, I thought that it was a little extreme for BU8. The center referee informed me that he could not have issued cards in BU8. QUESTIONS: Can this be true? How else to avoid these types of scenarios? What can the referee do to remove players from the pitch – even if only temporarily to be counseled by their coach about proper behavior on the field? Losing control of a BU8 match should not happen.
This is my opinion. I am an Intermediate Level referee. I am currently working towards my advanced badge and have been through the advanced training program at Ken Aston's referee school and an advanced referee assessor course. Therefore, I am not as experienced as many of our referees, and especially not as experienced as Steve Nesheiwat, our Referee Instructor/Assessor and Safety Director. But, here's my take:
Seeing elbows thrown during a match requires the referee to be in the correct position to the play. He has to have an angle to see between the players. And, he has to know what to look for after the players come apart. Also, if the players are too close together, elbows can be difficult to see even at the right angle because the elbows are in front of the two players bodies and shielded from a referee who often is trailing the play.
Usually, you don't expect to see too many players throwing elbows at U8. And U8 is not a division where we ask our most experienced referees to help out as much. So, this is an area for learning and improvement.
It sounds like the referee noticed that there were elbows being thrown, because of the comments from the coach and because the referee stopped play to speak with two players.
My advice would be:
To the coach(es) that see this happening; at a stoppage of play, preferably the half if you can wait, tell the referee politely that you are concerned that he's not seeing elbows being thrown and ask him if he would please try to pay extra attention to that.
To the Referee: It's important to call your game the way you see it. But, when you hear comments from the sidelines and coaches about missed elbows (or any other calls), you should take the information in and decide what to do with it. If the coach tells you he's concerned you might be missing elbow calls, you should consider paying extra attention by putting yourself in a position to see between the players when they come together. You should notice the players that seem to be involved and pay extra close attention when they come near other players, and get closer to these players. Especially watch just after the play, or just after the two players come apart to watch for the elbows. Sometimes all you'll see is the extended elbow coming back and the other player going down or reacting to getting elbowed. But this is enough to know what happened.
Also, elbows are something your ARs can really help you with if instructed, because they'll often see the front of the players as they come down the field towards the AR. Tell your ARs that you need their help in watching for elbows when players get close, and not to be afraid to wiggle their flag for the foul, and after you whistle to indicate the direction of restart.
Regarding cards, they are almost never given in U8 and many referees don't even have them at this level. That's because getting a card can be quite traumatic for a six or seven year old player. But, that doesn't prevent the referee from using his authority to control the match.
The referee should use his voice to remind the players during play "keep the elbows in boys", etc. He can stop the game to give a verbal warning to the players. If that's not effective, he can tell a player to come off the field and have the team play short until he waives him back on as a warning. And he can ask to have the player substituted. This can be done by telling the coach, "Coach, I'm going to need you to substitute #11 because he's not following my directions about elbowing, and I don't want to have to send him off. Could you please substitute him with another player for this quarter and speak with him so that we can continue?"
There are many ways to control the match and the referee should ensure that the match is Safe, Fair and Fun.
Referees, don't be afraid to discuss these situations and the challenges of conducting a match online at the referee blog, or through email to your Referee Administrator Bret and your Safety Director Steve.
It makes very difficult buisness when you post an anomous comment. Tell me the teams, which is throwing the elbows and we will atttempt to solve the problem.
We do not even know who the referee was to defend him or herself.
I know I have said this before. If you complain I will investigate and fix it to the best of my ability.
It shows only cowardice when you will not stand and be counted.
I have more of an issue that the Region continues to allow coaches to be verbally abusive towards referees; I know the Ref should pull the coach to the center of the field and talk to him. But why is it tolerated in the first place? Each ref has in own style, I have seen National Refs (i guess the badge equates awesomeness in refing) run by the touch line and state- 'coach get your assist coach warmed up." Maybe the Ctr ref should not shout comments back, but without the Refs the coaches would not have any games to attend. I should not lose my patience as a Ref, but when a coach bee-lines for an AR yelling at the top of his lungs, "the ball needs to be completely out before you call it!!" I guess sometimes human nature takes over, or when a coach from another Region that can not even field Refs for their home games, and relies on LM Refs to cover their Region games, yells from across the pitch "its already in your mouth. just blow on it!" I assume he meant the whistle? Why is that behavior tolerated? Oh I know, because those coaches may have a winning team that will represent LM at the National Games, God bless us. So the ref gets reminded to call the coach on the field to talk to him. Well what about the Coach Admin or RC talk to the coaches that lose their control??? Tell the coach he can not coach his team next weekend, that he needs to have an assistant coach take it? Oh yeah, I know because that coach may have a winning team that may represent LM at the Section tournament. Heaven forbid we upset a coach. I have been ref'ing AYSO LM games for maybe 5 years now, coached my son in some capacity for AYSO for 10 years. This past season, I have been getting paid to do Club games, mainly so my son can earn an extra few bucks doing it, and you know what- I never hear a coach or spectator yell at me. I will say that when I tell them I am from LM AYSO, the comments always seem to stem around how out of control LM parents/coaches can be. It is rather embarassing. So those out of control coaches I have an issue with your belligerent mouths more than what you preceive a Center Ref maybe doing on the pitch.
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I had an issue with a center referee allowing kids to get into an elbowing contest on the field: Player A on Team 1 zeroes in on Team 2's most skilled player (Player B). Elbowing and pushing from behind by Player A at the ball and away from the ball. Non-calls by referee cause parents from Team 2 to become irritated with shouts from sideline directed at sideline of Team 1. Team 1's sideline responds with words to Player A, encouraging him to continue rough play. A second player - Player C from Team 1 gets into the mix, also throwing elbows at Player B. Player B finally tires of being fouled and retaliates with elbow to Player A. Referee halts play and warns both Player A and Player B, but allows them both to continue on field. Elbows continue and Player B is elbowed in face by Player C. Again, no call was made by the referee. No calls were made by either of the ARs working the game. Player B was essentially neutralized by Player A & Player B. Word from both sidelines is that this is what is taught by coach of Team 1, who became irate when I approached and spoke with center ref about the lack of fouls called. While this may be the preferred strategy in upper divisions, I thought that it was a little extreme for BU8. The center referee informed me that he could not have issued cards in BU8. QUESTIONS: Can this be true? How else to avoid these types of scenarios? What can the referee do to remove players from the pitch – even if only temporarily to be counseled by their coach about proper behavior on the field? Losing control of a BU8 match should not happen.
AYSOCOACHX:
This is my opinion. I am an Intermediate Level referee. I am currently working towards my advanced badge and have been through the advanced training program at Ken Aston's referee school and an advanced referee assessor course. Therefore, I am not as experienced as many of our referees, and especially not as experienced as Steve Nesheiwat, our Referee Instructor/Assessor and Safety Director. But, here's my take:
Seeing elbows thrown during a match requires the referee to be in the correct position to the play. He has to have an angle to see between the players. And, he has to know what to look for after the players come apart. Also, if the players are too close together, elbows can be difficult to see even at the right angle because the elbows are in front of the two players bodies and shielded from a referee who often is trailing the play.
Usually, you don't expect to see too many players throwing elbows at U8. And U8 is not a division where we ask our most experienced referees to help out as much. So, this is an area for learning and improvement.
It sounds like the referee noticed that there were elbows being thrown, because of the comments from the coach and because the referee stopped play to speak with two players.
My advice would be:
To the coach(es) that see this happening; at a stoppage of play, preferably the half if you can wait, tell the referee politely that you are concerned that he's not seeing elbows being thrown and ask him if he would please try to pay extra attention to that.
To the Referee: It's important to call your game the way you see it. But, when you hear comments from the sidelines and coaches about missed elbows (or any other calls), you should take the information in and decide what to do with it. If the coach tells you he's concerned you might be missing elbow calls, you should consider paying extra attention by putting yourself in a position to see between the players when they come together. You should notice the players that seem to be involved and pay extra close attention when they come near other players, and get closer to these players. Especially watch just after the play, or just after the two players come apart to watch for the elbows. Sometimes all you'll see is the extended elbow coming back and the other player going down or reacting to getting elbowed. But this is enough to know what happened.
Also, elbows are something your ARs can really help you with if instructed, because they'll often see the front of the players as they come down the field towards the AR. Tell your ARs that you need their help in watching for elbows when players get close, and not to be afraid to wiggle their flag for the foul, and after you whistle to indicate the direction of restart.
Regarding cards, they are almost never given in U8 and many referees don't even have them at this level. That's because getting a card can be quite traumatic for a six or seven year old player. But, that doesn't prevent the referee from using his authority to control the match.
The referee should use his voice to remind the players during play "keep the elbows in boys", etc. He can stop the game to give a verbal warning to the players. If that's not effective, he can tell a player to come off the field and have the team play short until he waives him back on as a warning. And he can ask to have the player substituted. This can be done by telling the coach, "Coach, I'm going to need you to substitute #11 because he's not following my directions about elbowing, and I don't want to have to send him off. Could you please substitute him with another player for this quarter and speak with him so that we can continue?"
There are many ways to control the match and the referee should ensure that the match is Safe, Fair and Fun.
Referees, don't be afraid to discuss these situations and the challenges of conducting a match online at the referee blog, or through email to your Referee Administrator Bret and your Safety Director Steve.
In 1998 English referee Martin Sylvester sent himself off after punching a player during a game in the Andover and District Sunday League.
AYSOCOACHX,
It makes very difficult buisness when you post an anomous comment. Tell me the teams, which is throwing the elbows and we will atttempt to solve the problem.
We do not even know who the referee was to defend him or herself.
I know I have said this before. If you complain I will investigate and fix it to the best of my ability.
It shows only cowardice when you will not stand and be counted.
Tim
I have more of an issue that the Region continues to allow coaches to be verbally abusive towards referees; I know the Ref should pull the coach to the center of the field and talk to him. But why is it tolerated in the first place? Each ref has in own style, I have seen National Refs (i guess the badge equates awesomeness in refing) run by the touch line and state- 'coach get your assist coach warmed up." Maybe the Ctr ref should not shout comments back, but without the Refs the coaches would not have any games to attend. I should not lose my patience as a Ref, but when a coach bee-lines for an AR yelling at the top of his lungs, "the ball needs to be completely out before you call it!!" I guess sometimes human nature takes over, or when a coach from another Region that can not even field Refs for their home games, and relies on LM Refs to cover their Region games, yells from across the pitch "its already in your mouth. just blow on it!" I assume he meant the whistle? Why is that behavior tolerated? Oh I know, because those coaches may have a winning team that will represent LM at the National Games, God bless us. So the ref gets reminded to call the coach on the field to talk to him. Well what about the Coach Admin or RC talk to the coaches that lose their control??? Tell the coach he can not coach his team next weekend, that he needs to have an assistant coach take it? Oh yeah, I know because that coach may have a winning team that may represent LM at the Section tournament. Heaven forbid we upset a coach. I have been ref'ing AYSO LM games for maybe 5 years now, coached my son in some capacity for AYSO for 10 years. This past season, I have been getting paid to do Club games, mainly so my son can earn an extra few bucks doing it, and you know what- I never hear a coach or spectator yell at me. I will say that when I tell them I am from LM AYSO, the comments always seem to stem around how out of control LM parents/coaches can be. It is rather embarassing. So those out of control coaches I have an issue with your belligerent mouths more than what you preceive a Center Ref maybe doing on the pitch.
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